Discussion:
Jerez - with spoilers
(too old to reply)
Julian Bond
2011-04-03 17:58:57 UTC
Permalink
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>

Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
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That Which Is Not Allowed Is Forbidden
DaveW
2011-04-03 19:13:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:58:57 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>
Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
I'm no big fan of Stoner, but that was a real bonehead move on Rossi's
part, especially in those conditions. If Casey had a fit after the
race, I wouldn't have blamed him at all. His post race comments were
surprisingly tame, and I have to say I've gained some respect for him
for the way he handled it.

Strange race, with both Spies and Simoncelli giving up big points with
nobody near them.
PaulpULVITZKA
2011-04-03 22:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:58:57 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>
Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
I'm no big fan of Stoner, but that was a real bonehead move on Rossi's
part, especially in those conditions. If Casey had a fit after the
race, I wouldn't have blamed him at all. His post race comments were
surprisingly tame, and I have to say I've gained some respect for him
for the way he handled it.
Strange race, with both Spies and Simoncelli giving up big points with
nobody near them.
Stooner is a sook who cannot race in the wet

AYRTON SENNA:

"By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And
if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing
driver because we are competing, competing to win. And the main
motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come
3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win"

Well done Senna, and well done Rossi!
gearsau
2011-04-04 02:31:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by PaulpULVITZKA
Post by DaveW
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:58:57 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>
Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
I'm no big fan of Stoner, but that was a real bonehead move on Rossi's
part, especially in those conditions. If Casey had a fit after the
race, I wouldn't have blamed him at all. His post race comments were
surprisingly tame, and I have to say I've gained some respect for him
for the way he handled it.
Strange race, with both Spies and Simoncelli giving up big points with
nobody near them.
Stooner is a sook who cannot race in the wet
What are you on about? Check Malaysian MotoGP in 2009... Pouring
rain , and Stoner just walked away from everyone.'

SHELL ADVANCE MALAYSIAN MOTORCYCLE GP
MotoGP Race Classification 2009


Sepang, Sunday, October 25, 2009

Pos. Points Num. Rider Nation Team Bike Km/h Time/Gap
1 25 27 Casey STONER AUS Ducati Marlboro Team Ducati 147.4 47'24.834
2 20 3 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 146.7 +14.666
3 16 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha 146.4 +19.385



http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/2009/MAL/MotoGP/RAC/Analysis.pdf?v1_96143780
Champ
2011-04-03 19:31:01 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:58:57 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>
Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
Damn, wish I'd seen that. It wasn't on the Eurosport coverage - where
did you see it? BBC?

To state the obvious, it was a complete fuck up on Rossi's part. When
watching it live on TV, I thought he'd left it too late to try the
outbraking manoeuvre. Having said that, Rossi has a long history of
making mistakes, and this may be part of his popularity - he's
certainly not a machine.

And, it was fairly clear that he knew he'd made a big fuck up, and I
guess going to Stoner's garage to apologise is as big a gesture as he
could have made.

However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
Stoner if that's how he handled it.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Ivan D. Reid
2011-04-03 20:01:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Damn, wish I'd seen that. It wasn't on the Eurosport coverage - where
did you see it? BBC?
Yeah; got it with get_iplayer so it should be on the iplayer
coverage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0105sgl/MotoGP_2011_Round_2_Jerez/

...at 1:27:00 -- my ears didn't pick it up first time around.
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PaulpULVITZKA
2011-04-03 22:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:58:57 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And yet again, Casey Stoner ends up in the gravel trap due to the Ducati
front end. <grin>
Rossi went to apologise to Stoner in the Honda garage, and sensibly kept
his helmet on. The cameras and mic followed him in so it was all caught
on TV. Stoner: "Is your shoulder ok, mate?", "Your problem is your
ambition is bigger than your talent" all delivered with a big grin and a
wink to the camera. If he keeps this up, perhaps the cynical Brits will
finally warm to him instead of calling him "Tiny Tears".
Damn, wish I'd seen that.  It wasn't on the Eurosport coverage - where
did you see it? BBC?
To state the obvious, it was a complete fuck up on Rossi's part.
Stooner is a sook who cannot race in the wet

AYRTON SENNA:

"By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And
if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing
driver because we are competing, competing to win. And the main
motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it's not to come
3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win"

Well done Senna, and well done Rossi!


 When
Post by DaveW
watching it live on TV, I thought he'd left it too late to try the
outbraking manoeuvre.  Having said that, Rossi has a long history of
making mistakes, and this may be part of his popularity - he's
certainly not a machine.
And, it was fairly clear that he knew he'd made a big fuck up, and I
guess going to Stoner's garage to apologise is as big a gesture as he
could have made.
However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
Stoner if that's how he handled it.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Ed Light
2011-04-04 05:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Damn, wish I'd seen that. It wasn't on the Eurosport coverage - where
did you see it? BBC?
motogp.com subscription streaming had it. If you subscribe for a day you
can stream the archive of the race. Unless it's too close to the end.
They cut off the archive before the post-race inteviews.
--
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Julian Bond
2011-04-04 06:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
To state the obvious, it was a complete fuck up on Rossi's part. When
watching it live on TV, I thought he'd left it too late to try the
outbraking manoeuvre. Having said that, Rossi has a long history of
making mistakes, and this may be part of his popularity - he's
certainly not a machine.
That. Rossi got past, Stoner gave him room. It was all a perfectly
acceptable move, right up to the moment when Rossi's front folded. You'd
think that Rossi could just wait a couple of corners and get the pass
done without it be quite so risky. It was still early in the race and
Lorenzo, Simoncelli weren't getting away. He'd already passed a whole
bunch of people with relative ease and he may have thought this was just
one more of them. Right up to that moment of asking just too much from
the tyre it looked like Burgess and Rossi had pulled off a winning setup
for the damp track.

Stoner and Suppo were complaining that the marshalls didn't help enough
to get Stoner's bike going again. Suppo sounded just like Alec Ferguson
moaning about some referee decision. Except, hello? Marshalls aren't
there to restart bikes. They're there for safety. And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.

We felt really sorry for Simoncelli, Spies, Crutchlow, Edwards. But then
Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Hayden managed speed perfectly and the others didn't.

Looks like a good season, doesn't it? I just really hope Dani's surgery
works.
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That Which Is Not Allowed Is Forbidden
Champ
2011-04-04 08:23:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 07:51:29 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
Stoner and Suppo were complaining that the marshalls didn't help enough
to get Stoner's bike going again. Suppo sounded just like Alec Ferguson
moaning about some referee decision. Except, hello? Marshalls aren't
there to restart bikes. They're there for safety.
In fact, it always used to be the case that it was illegal for a
marshall to help a rider re-start a bike! Don't know if that has
changed.

Also, Rossi got the immediate attention because the bike was lying on
his leg.
Post by Julian Bond
And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
He did. Well, he's only got himself to blame, then.
Post by Julian Bond
Looks like a good season, doesn't it? I just really hope Dani's surgery
works.
It does, and I do.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Julian Bond
2011-04-04 08:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by Julian Bond
And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
He did. Well, he's only got himself to blame, then.
"Deliberately" may be over stating the case. I've since read a report
that Stoner hit the kill switch accidentally while falling off rather
than deliberately hitting it.

Remember when WSB used to have a ruling about automatic fall over kill
switches? Maybe MotoGp should just have those but also on board
starters!

Meanwhile there are claims that Rossi misjudged his braking and got
suckered into the pass. I don't believe that. Even though it started a
long way back, his line and everything about it up to the moment the
front folded looked like Rossi going for the pass.

Did you see the footage of Cluzel running into the back of Marquez? He
was completely sideways on the paint and by the time it was back under
control he was only feet from the rear of Marquez and still going 20mph
faster.
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That Which Is Not Allowed Is Forbidden
Champ
2011-04-04 09:35:10 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 09:49:33 +0100, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
He did?. Well, he's only got himself to blame, then.
"Deliberately" may be over stating the case. I've since read a report
that Stoner hit the kill switch accidentally while falling off rather
than deliberately hitting it.
ah.
Post by Julian Bond
Remember when WSB used to have a ruling about automatic fall over kill
switches? Maybe MotoGp should just have those but also on board
starters!
There was controversy about the Ducati tip-switches not working, I
recall, too.
Post by Julian Bond
Meanwhile there are claims that Rossi misjudged his braking and got
suckered into the pass. I don't believe that. Even though it started a
long way back, his line and everything about it up to the moment the
front folded looked like Rossi going for the pass.
Agree completely.
Post by Julian Bond
Did you see the footage of Cluzel running into the back of Marquez? He
was completely sideways on the paint and by the time it was back under
control he was only feet from the rear of Marquez and still going 20mph
faster.
Not seen it yet.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Ed Light
2011-04-04 11:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
Stoner and Suppo were complaining that the marshalls didn't help enough
to get Stoner's bike going again. Suppo sounded just like Alec Ferguson
moaning about some referee decision. Except, hello? Marshalls aren't
there to restart bikes. They're there for safety. And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
Except they restarted Rossi's. Must be fans.
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Julian Bond
2011-04-04 15:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
Post by Julian Bond
Stoner and Suppo were complaining that the marshalls didn't help enough
to get Stoner's bike going again. Suppo sounded just like Alec Ferguson
moaning about some referee decision. Except, hello? Marshalls aren't
there to restart bikes. They're there for safety. And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
Except they restarted Rossi's. Must be fans.
So if a Ducati can be started uphill with a push but a Honda takes two
people pushing not one, perhaps the Honda needs some re-design? Stoner
is moaning that he only had one marshall pushing and that's not enough.
Perhaps they need a thing like the old compression release lever to
manually lock up the slipper clutch?

This game happens just often enough where there's a dead engine after a
light spill and not much damage that you would think it would be worth
the engineers solving the problem.

After Gibernau, are there any Rossi fans in Spain? ;) Or perhaps another
way, would an Andalucian marshall want Stoner back out there picking up
points when his main rivals are Lorenzo and Pedrosa? I'm not saying it's
like that at all but I could understand a patriotic fan being just a
little lazy about helping Stoner to get back out there. And a
knowledgeable patriotic fan seeing Ducati-Rossi back out there as no
problem.
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Patent Pending
Ed Light
2011-04-05 01:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
Post by Ed Light
Post by Julian Bond
Stoner and Suppo were complaining that the marshalls didn't help enough
to get Stoner's bike going again. Suppo sounded just like Alec Ferguson
moaning about some referee decision. Except, hello? Marshalls aren't
there to restart bikes. They're there for safety. And the only reason
the bike was dead was that Stoner had deliberately hit the kill switch.
Except they restarted Rossi's. Must be fans.
So if a Ducati can be started uphill with a push but a Honda takes two
people pushing not one, perhaps the Honda needs some re-design? Stoner
is moaning that he only had one marshall pushing and that's not enough.
Perhaps they need a thing like the old compression release lever to
manually lock up the slipper clutch?
If I remember right, multiple marshals pushed Rossi, but walked away
from Stoner.
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Ed Light
2011-04-05 01:49:29 UTC
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Jorge unhappy with marshalls for favoritism towards Rossi.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2011/April/apr0411JerezMotoGPJorgeLorenzounhappywithmarshals/
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pablo
2011-04-05 03:35:05 UTC
Permalink
Geez talk about someone playing it up for the media. Lorenzo is a
notorious egomaniac - not that I think racers as a whole aren't or
shouldn't be... the barbs are amusing, and typically reveal more about
the racer making the statement than the ones they are pretending to
give a neutral evaluation of :-D

This was a crazy race. Given the overall stats, chances are Stoner
would have taken Rossi out 2 turns later :) I think it's simply
because it is a fun thing to start to build up. My only issue ios
simply that I think Stoner is a serious championship contender and I
hope such issues don't make a difference in the championship - they
ought to be spread out evenly among all contenders with equally
harmless consequences. Rossi in turn doesn't look anywhere near
championship contention right now - and I don't think it's only the
bike.

If the supposed chronic injuries going around the paddock are *that*
bad, hey guys, retire or move to WSB and let fresh talent in. No one
has more reasons to claim chronic injuries than Hopkins, and he was
happy as a clam. Good for him. Hopefully that means he'll be back when
new rules allow for renwed factory investment. I like him. So -naming
names- Rossi and Pedrosa shut up....

I wonder what Elias' bike issues are about. He claims the bike is
under-developed.... isn't it a regular Honda...? It seems the problem
isn't the bike, it's the team, and it's other the engineers or the
rider, and this is second to last call for Elias.
Switters
2011-04-05 08:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablo
I wonder what Elias' bike issues are about. He claims the bike is
under-developed.... isn't it a regular Honda...? It seems the problem
isn't the bike, it's the team, and it's other the engineers or the
rider, and this is second to last call for Elias.
On British Eurosport the guys were saying that Elias has been saying that
he cannot get enough heat into the Bridgestones, so doesn't have the
feeling for the front that he would like. They've tried lots of
possibilities for the geometry, but so far nothing is working.

Apparently (as I recall) his ideal set up is like a chopper with no
suspension.
Julian Bond
2011-04-05 07:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
If I remember right, multiple marshals pushed Rossi, but walked away
from Stoner.
There's some wonderful photos out there.
- Stoner on top of his bike on top of Rossi's bike on top of Rossi.
- Stoner being pushed by 5 or 6 marshalls
- Stoner standing at the side of the track slow clapping Rossi as he
goes past and Rossi waving back
- Rossi stalking into the Honda pit with a complete media circus behind
him.

I think the marshalls may have been a bit slow helping Stoner but there
were several helping him. I also think they all faded away as they got
near the track on a corner that saw several accidents and where the
bikes brake from 175mph. I suspect Stoner did hit the kill switch while
Rossi hung on to the clutch and kept the engine running. Which all makes
me think Stoner is making a lot of noise to cover for him making the
situation worse. I don't believe Rossi's story about being unable to
stop and so being forced into a pass. I think he got carried away with
how fast he was passing everyone and the possibility of a big win.

Fun, innit!
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Switters
2011-04-05 08:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
There's some wonderful photos out there.
- Stoner on top of his bike on top of Rossi's bike on top of Rossi.
- Stoner being pushed by 5 or 6 marshalls
Ooooh, not seen that.
Post by Julian Bond
- Stoner standing at the side of the track slow clapping Rossi as he
goes past and Rossi waving back
Haven't seen the waving back one either.
Post by Julian Bond
- Rossi stalking into the Honda pit with a complete media circus behind
him.
Not suprising. One of the big stories of the day, following a mistake
from the 9x champ. Yeah, I'd follow him too if I were on camera duty.
Heck, they even followed Cluzel into Marquez's garage.

It was certainly entertaining. I'd have loved to have been there.
Julian Bond
2011-04-05 11:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Switters
Post by Julian Bond
There's some wonderful photos out there.
- Stoner on top of his bike on top of Rossi's bike on top of Rossi.
- Stoner being pushed by 5 or 6 marshalls
Ooooh, not seen that.
http://resources.motogp.com/files/images/xy/2011/MotoGP/n520361_Crash_Sto
ner_Rossi003.original.jpg

http://twitpic.com/4gubm9

Loading Image...
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Champ
2011-04-04 09:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
Stoner if that's how he handled it.
But now I don't. From MotoGP.com:

Stoner: ”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the
cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to
have proof,” commented Stoner. ”For sure Valentino doesn’t do this for
himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised.
Yes it’s a nice gesture, it’s very good, but it still doesn’t change
the result today, so we’ll see what happens in the next races.”

So, he's complaining that Rossi came to apologise while the cameras
were on him. Well, pretty much everything Rossi does at a GP weekend
has cameras on him, and if he'd waited for a quiet moment, no doubt
Stoner would claim that "Rossi took hours to come and apologise".

Stoner really is a whinging little shit.
--
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neal at champ dot org dot uk
gearsau
2011-04-04 11:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
Stoner if that's how he handled it.
Stoner: ”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the
cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to
have proof,” commented Stoner. ”For sure Valentino doesn’t do this for
himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised.
Yes it’s a nice gesture, it’s very good, but it still doesn’t change
the result today, so we’ll see what happens in the next races.”
So, he's complaining that Rossi came to apologise while the cameras
were on him.  Well, pretty much everything Rossi does at a GP weekend
has cameras on him, and if he'd waited for a quiet moment, no doubt
Stoner would claim that "Rossi took hours to come and apologise".
Stoner really is a whinging little shit.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Rossi is a master of the art of show for the cameras. If he was
genuine, he would have at least taken his helmet off.
Stoner is 100% correct in what he said.

And to those who wonder why Stoner hit the kill switch, remember the
limited number of motors allowed per rider per season.
An engine laying on its side , and running is not good for it Oil runs
away from oil pump pickup, and next thing, we have a ruined motor.
Thats why Stoner cut the engine.

Maybe it would be a good idea to have " on board" starters.
Switters
2011-04-04 13:04:22 UTC
Permalink
For sure Valentino doesn't do this for
himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised.
Speaking to some Italians friends recently, this was their opinion of him
in general. Everything is for show.
Mark N
2011-04-08 15:59:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
However, as reported by Julian above, I do have a bit more respect for
Stoner if that's how he handled it.
Stoner: ”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the
cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to
have proof,” commented Stoner. ”For sure Valentino doesn’t do this for
himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised.
Yes it’s a nice gesture, it’s very good, but it still doesn’t change
the result today, so we’ll see what happens in the next races.”
So, he's complaining that Rossi came to apologise while the cameras
were on him. Well, pretty much everything Rossi does at a GP weekend
has cameras on him, and if he'd waited for a quiet moment, no doubt
Stoner would claim that "Rossi took hours to come and apologise".
Stoner really is a whinging little shit.
So Rossi walks into Stoner's garage wearing his helmet and with cameras
in tow, and Casey has to adjust the interaction knowing that it will all
be out there for the world to see, and in the public's democratic
opinion you simply don't win any pissing match with Vale, by definition.
Compare that to Pedrosa going to Hayden's motorhome at Estoril in 2006,
just in street clothes, and taking his verbal whipping like a man(-boy).
I think Casey just wanted to have that discussion on a man-to-man basis,
just between them, where he could say what he wanted and not have it
thrown back in his face by a biased press for months or years to come
(remember Laguna '08?), and instead he got the Valentino Rossi Show. And
I don't think there's much more to it than that.

Sack up next time, Vale - as Biaggi might have said, this isn't
performance art...
Mark N
2011-04-08 14:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
To state the obvious, it was a complete fuck up on Rossi's part. When
watching it live on TV, I thought he'd left it too late to try the
outbraking manoeuvre. Having said that, Rossi has a long history of
making mistakes, and this may be part of his popularity - he's
certainly not a machine.
To fill this out a bit, Rossi has a history of making "mistakes", paying
for it in a narrow sense but actually coming out on top in the broader
sense, and in part because of the Rossi "unfair advantage", greater
support from what should be impartial parties in the whole thing. When
you boil it all down, how strikingly similar are Jerez '05 and Jerez '11?
pablo
2011-04-04 01:08:38 UTC
Permalink
it was a crazy and unpredictable race.

because of the conditions i am not sure i'd blame Rossi for a kamikaze
move. i also hope it does not have a big effect on the championship in
the end, but it was something that happened between people with the
proverbial potential so hopefully it will cancel itself out. given how
competitive this season is turning out to be, i hope that such
showdowns end just as harmlessly going forward.

i really felt bad about Spies, he was truly laying down a masterful
performance on a track he is not even that familiar with, and the
Spanish fans were digging it.

awesome result for Hayden - hopefully a confidence booster under
conditions that favor riding over material. also great for aoyama
(respect), elias (fix that bike dude), and hopkins (welcome back - top
10 on your first race back must feel like a podium finish).

this is turning out to be a very interesting season thanks to the
paddock moves.
Ed Light
2011-04-04 05:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Maybe Rossi wasn't quite familiar with the proverbial Ducati front end
and thought everything was ok.

After the race the wet tires were ripped, as seen in the inspection of
the top 3 bikes. Apparently it got too dry and they were destroyed. The
only tread (cuts for water escaping) left was on the very edges, which
were all torn up.
--
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Ed Light
2011-04-04 06:25:39 UTC
Permalink
Here's what Rossi & Stoner said:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/168055/1/what_stoner_said_to_rossi_after_jerez_crash.html

Except, the way I heard it, Rossi said: "Ambition?"

Then he kind of went away. He wasn't real confident.
--
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Mark N
2011-04-08 14:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablo
it was a crazy and unpredictable race.
because of the conditions i am not sure i'd blame Rossi for a kamikaze
move. i also hope it does not have a big effect on the championship in
the end, but it was something that happened between people with the
proverbial potential so hopefully it will cancel itself out. given how
competitive this season is turning out to be, i hope that such
showdowns end just as harmlessly going forward.
i really felt bad about Spies, he was truly laying down a masterful
performance on a track he is not even that familiar with, and the
Spanish fans were digging it.
awesome result for Hayden - hopefully a confidence booster under
conditions that favor riding over material. also great for aoyama
(respect), elias (fix that bike dude), and hopkins (welcome back - top
10 on your first race back must feel like a podium finish).
this is turning out to be a very interesting season thanks to the
paddock moves.
One could say none of the guys on the podium should have been where they
were - Lorenzo wouldn't likely have won in the dry and probably not in
the wet had Silli, Rossi and Casey not all crashed, Hayden wouldn't have
been close to the podium in the dry and seemed determined to avoid the
podium on his fragged tires in the wet, and Pedrosa was on his way to
his usual embarrassment in the rain when everything went sideways for
almost everyone else (notice how less worn his tire was after the race -
the product of his light weight and/or his tentative riding?). But they
were survivors in a race decided almost entirely on the tires and their
regulation.

I felt the worst for Edwards, who lost a sure podium based on a
mechanical. But Hayden inheriting that back made it a bit better. I
guess Spies shows how bad the situation was out there once the tires
went, not characteristic at all. On the other hand, I was just waiting
for Silli to screw the pooch out there, and he delivered as expected.

Lorenzo did what champions do, somehow; Stoner not, the helpless victim
in this episode of the Valentino Rossi Show, and Pedrosa totally dodged
a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health. Rossi did as well or
better than he would have in the dry, and he also managed to cost a
championship rival as much as 25 points in the process. In the end this
could be a very critical moment in the championship, once it settles
down and becomes a straight fight between 2, 3 or all 4 of these guys.
pablo
2011-04-11 05:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
One could say none of the guys on the podium should have been where they
were
true, but then again racing -like almost any success in life- always
involves some luck on top. it's always conveniently forgotten after
the fact.
Post by Mark N
... had Silli, Rossi and Casey not all crashed....
but they did. and, except for Stoner, they did because they made
mistakes.
Post by Mark N
... Pedrosa ...
his race was strange. falling behind. coming back. slowing down.
Post by Mark N
... Spies shows how bad the situation was ...
arguably they should have shortened the race.
Post by Mark N
... Pedrosa totally dodged
a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health
i somehow doubt Pedrosa will do any better after the surgery. it's
always some other reason. it's clear Stoner is faster on the Honda,
period.
Post by Mark N
could be a very critical moment in the championship
i hope not. the only big loser points wise was Stoner. he was riding
like he deserved a load of them and missed them through no fault of
his own (unlike everybody else that went down). on the other hand he's
been riding like he is the top championship favorite, so perhaps this
will help not make the season too one-sided after the first 4 or 5
races...

and if Rossi does that again, he deserves a heavy penalty.
Mark N
2011-04-13 20:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablo
Post by Mark N
... Pedrosa ...
his race was strange. falling behind. coming back. slowing down.
Post by Mark N
... Spies shows how bad the situation was ...
arguably they should have shortened the race.
Post by Mark N
... Pedrosa totally dodged
a bullet on his way to better shoulder/arm health
i somehow doubt Pedrosa will do any better after the surgery. it's
always some other reason. it's clear Stoner is faster on the Honda,
period.
Post by Mark N
could be a very critical moment in the championship
i hope not. the only big loser points wise was Stoner. he was riding
like he deserved a load of them and missed them through no fault of
his own (unlike everybody else that went down). on the other hand he's
been riding like he is the top championship favorite, so perhaps this
will help not make the season too one-sided after the first 4 or 5
races...
This race reminded me so much of Donington '09, then guys on slicks on
a too-wet track, this time on rains on a too-dry track, both because
of relatively recent rules construction regarding tires. Over the
course of both races the pace fell off by about 10 seconds, as the
tire and track conditions from the mismatch worsened. There were lots
of crashers in both races, Stoner's races were disasters, and Rossi
crashed in both only to pick it up and finish in 5th both times. For
Lorenzo and Pedrosa this was a different deal, though, as Jorge
crashed out last time while leading, and this time he let the race
come to him and won. Pedrosa started out much like '09, falling down
through the field as if his bike was stuck in reverse, but this time
somehow that channged, and, unlike Lorenzo, I'm not so certain it's
because he's gotten better in the wet or selected a better strategy.

The winning strategy was Lorenzo's, which was to go into the lead at
the start and then quickly back off, the track not being wet enough
for the soft tires. So he posted his fastest lap and all his fastest
section times on lap 2 and then slowed immediately. The one other
rider to do that was Stoner, which suggests his thinking was the same
and perhaps the outcome would have been similar had he not been taken
out by Rossi. The other fast guys who ended up in the dirt or with
shot tires all posted fast laps and sections later, although that kind
of speed was over quickly in this race, with no one posting a race
fast lap after lap 5 (Pedrosa and Hayden) or a fast section time after
lap 7 (Aoyama; Nick had two on lap 6). And I suspect that cost all
these guys on tire and grip. From then on it was about how quickly
guys slowed, and Lorenzo managed that the best. After his bad opening
laps Pedrosa continued to close on Lorenzo until lap 15, when the
margin was down to 1.2 second, but Jorge pretty quickly pulled away
after that, maintaining his pace much better than Dani, who had to
give up a spot to Spies before having that gifted back. Dani's tire
was clearly in better shape than the others in parc ferme, with
visible tread remaining. So I don't see much more than giood fortune
getting him to 2nd, with his machine or his style or perhaps-tentative
rain riding or lighter weight wearing his tire less, his backing off
to save rubber later into the race (if at all), and his inability to
stay with JL in the 2nd half of the race on what looked like a better
tire.

In any case, I'm also not sure that I like rules which end up with
these guys doing a whole race in a situation like that, or the one at
Donington in '09.
Post by pablo
and if Rossi does that again, he deserves a heavy penalty.
Yes, but we won't see ever see that, will we? We haven't seen it yet,
and Rossi has done MUCH worse...

Ed Light
2011-04-06 02:20:53 UTC
Permalink
FIM to review the marshals' actions:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/168112/1/fim_launches_review_after_rossi-stoner_incident.html
--
Ed Light

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http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
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http://couragetoresist.org
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