Discussion:
Paging Pablo
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Champ
2010-12-17 11:29:19 UTC
Permalink
I seem to recall we had a bet over whether Spies would win a race this
season...

While he had a great season, with a couple of podiums as well as a
pole position, he didn't get that maiden MotoGP win. Which means you
own $10 to a charity of my choice.

I was going to get all political and propose a donation to WikiLeaks,
but lets keep it simple and make it to Riders for Health. A brief
look at their web site shows that one can make a simple donation using
a credit card.

Thanks for being a good sport about it :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Switters
2010-12-17 14:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
I was going to get all political and propose a donation to WikiLeaks,
heh, you surprise me.
Post by Champ
but lets keep it simple and make it to Riders for Health.
Good choice.
Post by Champ
Thanks for being a good sport about it :-)
Well, he hasn't responded yet.

OK, now, would you take the same bet for 2011?
Champ
2010-12-20 11:24:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Switters
Post by Champ
Thanks for being a good sport about it :-)
Well, he hasn't responded yet.
heh. I'd guess he only looks in here on an infrequent basis nowadays.
Post by Switters
OK, now, would you take the same bet for 2011?
Er, no, I don't think I would :-)

This is as good a place as any to start the "What's going to happen in
2011" discussion, and as Julian often says, the new season always
looks at its most exciting before it starts. I expect Spies to join
the aliens, meaning every race has five potential winners. But
there's so much to guess at:

- How will Stoner go on the Honda?
- Will Rossi be able to make the Ducati work for him?
- How will Dani cope with Stoner on a works Honda
- Will any of them be able to deal with Lorenzo?
- How often will Spies be able to run with them?
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Switters
2010-12-21 14:49:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by Switters
OK, now, would you take the same bet for 2011?
Er, no, I don't think I would :-)
Me neither :)
Post by Champ
This is as good a place as any to start the "What's going to happen in
2011" discussion, and as Julian often says, the new season always
looks at its most exciting before it starts.
I'm not sure I want to get my hopes dashed again. There's just so much to
look forward to at this point of the season, but it never lives up to the
expectation.
Post by Champ
- How will Stoner go on the Honda?
Good. I think he'll prove that he's not a one make rider.
Post by Champ
- Will Rossi be able to make the Ducati work for him?
Ahh, good choice of words. I Ducati will do all they can to do so. After
all, if they can't get it to work for Rossi, who else will want to ride
it?

How much will he [need to] adapt his riding to suit bike though?
Post by Champ
- How will Dani cope with Stoner on a works Honda
I can't really tell with Pedrosa. Just when you think he's lost the plot,
he'll pull out a blinder.
Post by Champ
- Will any of them be able to deal with Lorenzo?
They all want that answer.
Post by Champ
- How often will Spies be able to run with them?
Every race, according to you. :) I think he'll be there for about 1/2 the
time.
Champ
2010-12-21 16:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Switters
Post by Champ
- How will Stoner go on the Honda?
Good. I think he'll prove that he's not a one make rider.
Well, it's interesting. Stoner's season on a satellite Honda was
marred by a bunch of front end crashes. When he went to Ducati, with
the then legendary front Bridgestone, he could do no wrong. But since
Bridgestone have become the spec tyre, they've had to make a tyre with
broaded characteristics that works on most bikes (except the
Suzuki...), and Stoner has been losing the front again. I'm sure this
is simplistic, but all the same.
Post by Switters
Post by Champ
- Will Rossi be able to make the Ducati work for him?
Ahh, good choice of words. I Ducati will do all they can to do so. After
all, if they can't get it to work for Rossi, who else will want to ride
it?
How much will he [need to] adapt his riding to suit bike though?
Well, he's had to change his riding style multiple times through his
career, so I don't think that will be a problem for him. But I'm
still intrigued to see what he and Ducati come up with.
Post by Switters
Post by Champ
- How will Dani cope with Stoner on a works Honda
I can't really tell with Pedrosa. Just when you think he's lost the plot,
he'll pull out a blinder.
Absolutely!
Post by Switters
Post by Champ
- How often will Spies be able to run with them?
Every race, according to you. :) I think he'll be there for about 1/2 the
time.
heh. Well, while there have been four aliens, there have been few
races where all four are on the pace. So while I think Spies will be
up there, I don't think it will be every race. But this year will
probably be as important and demanding of him as last - he needs to be
challenging for the podium most weekends, and threatening wins.
Otherwise he's just another Dovizioso...

Is there anyone else on this newsgroup any more, or shall we just take
this to email? :-(
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
DaveW
2010-12-21 17:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Is there anyone else on this newsgroup any more, or shall we just take
this to email? :-(
Please don't deprive us lurkers of the occasional racing related
off-season posts. A few is better than none!

Without this group, I wouldn't have known Paris Hilton had a team in
125. I may follow it now.
Julian Bond
2010-12-21 17:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
and as Julian often says, the new season always
looks at its most exciting before it starts. I expect Spies to join
the aliens, meaning every race has five potential winners. But
Lots of good stories.
- Stoner vs Pedrosa. I expect Stoner to comprehensively beat Pedrobot at
most meetings.
- Can Rossi-Burgess-Preziosi turn the Ducati into something good enough
for some last lap heroics?
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
- Lorenzo now has to do it again.
- Exactly how fast is Cal Crutchlow going to be? I think there's going
to be at least one race where he's really on it, like he was at
Silverstone.

But really, I expect MotoGP to be a disappointment again. Moto2, the
last 125cc and especially WSB promise much better racing. WSB especially
has all sorts of potential for entertainment.

Now what about WSS? Gino Rea for the win (innit!)?

And yeah, I'm still here.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
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Warning: After Heating, Product Will Be Hot
Champ
2010-12-21 18:06:29 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:29:32 +0000, Julian Bond
Post by Julian Bond
Post by Champ
and as Julian often says, the new season always
looks at its most exciting before it starts. I expect Spies to join
the aliens, meaning every race has five potential winners. But
Lots of good stories.
- Stoner vs Pedrosa. I expect Stoner to comprehensively beat Pedrobot at
most meetings.
Yep, but there'll be a couple where Dani is uncatchable.
Post by Julian Bond
- Exactly how fast is Cal Crutchlow going to be? I think there's going
to be at least one race where he's really on it, like he was at
Silverstone.
I think Crutchlow is a huge unknown. I don't think he's honestly done
enough to deserve this ride, but, on the otherhand, he has the
potential to surprise everyone.
Post by Julian Bond
But really, I expect MotoGP to be a disappointment again.
Yep. I doubt many will bemoan the last year of the 800s. 17 bikes on
the grid is frankly an embarrassment for the peak of the sport.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Switters
2010-12-22 12:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Post by Julian Bond
- Exactly how fast is Cal Crutchlow going to be? I think there's going
to be at least one race where he's really on it, like he was at
Silverstone.
I think Crutchlow is a huge unknown. I don't think he's honestly done
enough to deserve this ride,
Yes and no... he didn't take the crown like Spies did in WSB, but he
showed that he can be fast, and he's young enough to be brought over now
before he gets stuck on the SuperBike train. I suspect he'll
comprehensively beat Edwards, who'll probably end up getting another
contract somehow.
Post by Champ
but, on the otherhand, he has the potential to surprise everyone.
I'd agree with that.
Post by Champ
Post by Julian Bond
But really, I expect MotoGP to be a disappointment again.
Yep. I doubt many will bemoan the last year of the 800s. 17 bikes on
the grid is frankly an embarrassment for the peak of the sport.
Good riddance to them.
les
2010-12-22 10:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
and as Julian often says, the new season always looks at its most
exciting before it starts.
Lots of good stories.
- Stoner vs Pedrosa. I expect Stoner to comprehensively beat Pedrobot at
most meetings.
Depends on whether Stoner can control the front end.
Post by Julian Bond
- Can Rossi-Burgess-Preziosi turn the Ducati into something good enough
for some last lap heroics?
This is worth watching IMHO.
After reading and understanding most of Neil Spalding's book
this is what i'll be watching with interest.
Post by Julian Bond
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
Spies is fast and now he's on works equipment has to prove just how good
he is.
Post by Julian Bond
- Lorenzo now has to do it again.
Agreed and it's a golden opportunity for him.
Post by Julian Bond
WSB especially has all sorts of potential for entertainment.
for no apparent reason WSB doesn't do much for me.
shrug
Mark N
2010-12-29 23:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
Lots of good stories.
- Stoner vs Pedrosa. I expect Stoner to comprehensively beat Pedrobot at
most meetings.
That seems to be the general take, which leads me to think somehow
it'll end up wrong. I thought Stoner would be Rossi's biggest
championship challenger this year, which only ended up true if you
viewed it as the fight for third. The last time I was right about
Casey was when I said there was no way he'd repeat in 2008. On the
other hand, I've picked Pedrosa to win it more than once...
Post by Julian Bond
- Can Rossi-Burgess-Preziosi turn the Ducati into something good enough
for some last lap heroics?
More to the point, will Rossi's popularity leverage be sufficient for
Ducati to move off their "*shrug* it works for Casey" approach and
seriously try to address some of the bike's problems? Or, as we come
to the end of the 800 era, has the Japanese competition finally worn
down the last bits of the Ducati advantage of '07 and the myth of
inherent Euro tactical/engineering superiority?
Post by Julian Bond
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Post by Julian Bond
- Lorenzo now has to do it again.
Or not. He dominated, he kicked Rossi's ass on Rossi's bike, he
handily beat Pedrosa on the best Honda 800 yet, he did it on spec
tires and with no top speed advantage. So what does he have to prove?
[well, he could do it with equalized package weight, I suppose, and/or
on a 1000] If he slips, it's likely because Yamaha has slipped, which
they do from time to time. Of course the Rossiphilia will say that's
because he no longer has Vale pushing bike development, but that would
be just so many sour grapes over '10...
Post by Julian Bond
- Exactly how fast is Cal Crutchlow going to be? I think there's going
to be at least one race where he's really on it, like he was at
Silverstone.
...and manages to put it in the top... six? Seven? Eight?? Crutchlow
is no Spies, he's mostly there to sell MotoGP interest in the UK; the
best I can say is he's probably no McWilliams, Ellison or Byrne
either...
Post by Julian Bond
But really, I expect MotoGP to be a disappointment again. Moto2, the
last 125cc and especially WSB promise much better racing. WSB especially
has all sorts of potential for entertainment.
Yep, they're all still on electronically-controlled 800s. It's really
the rider moves that can make it interesting, plus machines which have
evolved to a common level, even if they are fundamentally boring to
watch. With so little winter testing (which really hurts the movers,
of course), one really doesn't know what to expect come Qatar. Moto2
should be changed some, just because everyone has a year under their
belts; don't know if it'll be better or worse, but the lap times
should drop. WSB likely will continue to evolve further from the
Ducati Cup to the Aprilia/BMW Cup, and will of course continue to be a
solidly Euro affair...
Post by Julian Bond
And yeah, I'm still here.
Me too... occasionally...
Ed Light
2010-12-30 02:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Post by Julian Bond
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Aww - don't be the "ugly American".

From Ed in California.
--
Ed Light

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Mark N
2010-12-31 16:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
Post by Mark N
Post by Julian Bond
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Aww - don't be the "ugly American".
From Ed in California.
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs at a guy who once said, "Racing would be better off
without America and Americans"? And it's not like he made any case
against Spies, presented any reasoning for his opinion. I happen to
mostly agree with him, but at least I have reasons - Spies won't get the
same level of support from Yamaha as Lorenzo, Spies will be fighting his
size, etc. I think it's hard to claim that he has disappointed at all
ever since he first got on a Yosh SB back in 2005, and not too many guys
have had that sort of consistent record against that level of
competition and with the number of things he's had to overcome in the
process. But for Julian, once you get past his nationality, his biggest
failure probably is that he didn't race and win in GP's 125 and 250
classes, the "birthplace of champions"...
Julian Bond
2010-12-31 18:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs
And a fucking happy New Year to you too.

Jeez' 2011 and no fucking change. I make that 15 years (?) you've been
spreading your bullshit in rmr. I guess that makes your ability to find
a chip to put on your shoulder still "somewhat unproven".
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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Just Say No To DRM
Ed Light
2010-12-31 22:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Bond
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs
And a fucking happy New Year to you too.
Jeez' 2011 and no fucking change. I make that 15 years (?) you've been
spreading your bullshit in rmr. I guess that makes your ability to find
a chip to put on your shoulder still "somewhat unproven".
How did all this start?

In another newsgroup there's a guy who's a bit much, and everybody has
him filtered out; it's a really ducky group that way.
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

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http://antiwar.com

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Mark N
2011-01-05 04:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Mark N
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs
And a fucking happy New Year to you too.
Jeez' 2011 and no fucking change. I make that 15 years (?) you've been
spreading your bullshit in rmr. I guess that makes your ability to find
a chip to put on your shoulder still "somewhat unproven".
Methinks you've been spewing your BS longer than I've been here (which
is less than 12 years, btw). So let's quickly dance down memory lane and
look at your legacy of rather left-handed support for Spies:

2011:
"Spies is undoubtedly extremely fast and an extremely fast learner. His
ability to beat the aliens is still somewhat unproven. This is his chance."
"I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised."

2010:
[1/23/10]"Will his rookie year be better than Lorenzo's? Unlikely. But
then hopefully he won't have the 3 big high sides. How often or how soon
will he beat Edwards? My guess is that he'll be fairly quickly into the
second pack and there'll be at least one race where Rossi has his one
big screw up of the year and some other stuff happens that gets him on
the podium."

2009:
[2/22/09}"I don't think there are any obvious winners but there must be
10 people in with a chance. So yes, I think Bens Pies will do very well
and he will win races. But it's like he'll be racing against 5 Mladins
and not just one. So winning the championship is going to be a tall
order even though it may be within reach."
[1/31/09] "But I have to say I am amazed at how fast the Yamaha Italia
bike is straight out of the box. And what a great style Ben has."
[11/21/08] "Maybe there will be room for Spies in 2010 too. But I figure
he has to prove himself in WSB first. In one year. But there again,
maybe he'll like it in WSB and want to stay... As for the old chestnut
about "not all of them" I still have a hard time thinking of anyone who
could bring in top 10 finishes in MotoGP who isn't already there... If
he does a Bayliss and just completely smokes the rest of the field I can
imagine a door opening into MotoGP. If he wins a few, fades in a few and
comes 3rd in the championship, I don't think that will be enough for
2010. It really wouldn't surprise me if he's still in WSB in 2012."

2008:
[9/26/08] "Spies did well at three races that were really pretty odd.
Good on him. He probably ought to be in MotoGP. But I don't think he'd
beat Vermeulen or Capirossi over the whole of his first season."
[9/16/08] "Eventually, you'll understand the benefit of every national
series running the same production based rules. When the USA eventually
stops trying to go its own way and whoever it is that is running the
national series sees sense. And maybe then somebody like Jason DiSalvo
(or Spies) might have got the Yamaha Italia ride instead of Tom Sykes."
Your only actual comment about Spies in any of those wildcard races
[6/22/08]: "Seems like I've watched a great British hope have a
disastrous Donington GP before. What actually happened in that first
corner? Did he [Toseland] do it all on his own? Or did he screw up
avoiding Spies just in front of him? Not that I'm saying it was in any
way Spies' fault but an onboard shot seemed to show him get right on
Spies back wheel just before going down."

And then of course we're back to this sort of thing, in Spies' pre-world
days:

JB [5/23/08]:I'm sure I've said this before. If the problem is Suzuki
dominance why aren't the other teams better? Honda in BSB and Ten Kate
in WSB are competitive. They won last year's WSB, remember? Yamaha
Italia are competitive in WSB. Kawasaki are nowhere (yet) in BSB and WSB
and yet they're beginning to look like they are 3rd in line after the
two Suzukis in the US. What does that say about Yamaha and Honda?"

MN: "Yes, you've said it before, and you're asking once again because
you refuse to listen to the answers... I think it's all pretty simple
over here. Suzuki has continued to run a SB R&D operation in Japan right
through the MGP era, and that effort has largely been driven by the US
program, which means by Mladin. WSB also got the fruit of that, and has
had competitive bikes since the return of Alstare a few years ago and
Corser won them a dominant championship."

JB: "I love this. So Alstare win because of the US team? Yeah, right."

MN: "The third Yosh SB hasn't won since the last race of '05, which was
Yates' only win that year, and before that you have to go back to '03.
So that supports the notion that it's less about the Yosh bikes and more
about Mladin and Spies. Kawasaki hasn't won since '03, but they pulled
out for two years after that so are still getting their sea legs in SB.
They seem to be getting as much support as Japan has to offer, but
they're also in early development of a new machine, having apparently
made a jump at Sears. Yamaha pulled out of SB after '02, were gone for
four years, and in last year's return apparently were making a purely
in-house development effort, with predictable results."

JB: "So really, the other teams are useless because they're useless.
They're in, they're out, they're in again, they're finding their feet,
they haven't got riders of the calibre of Mladin and Spies. Next?"


Next indeed...
Ed Light
2011-01-05 05:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Methinks you've been spewing your BS longer than I've been here (which
is less than 12 years, btw). So let's quickly dance down memory lane and
I read the stuff you quoted from Julian, and I'd say if you think that
is so anti-Spies you're
seeing it through some kind of colored glasses.

It's complimentary to Ben.

You seem to require blind faith in Ben, or something. Only his fan club
can give him that.

Ben is such a humble guy, willing to tell all about how he rides. Maybe
his fans can be cool too.

I'm one.
--
Ed Light

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Mark N
2011-01-05 06:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
Post by Mark N
Methinks you've been spewing your BS longer than I've been here (which
is less than 12 years, btw). So let's quickly dance down memory lane and
I read the stuff you quoted from Julian, and I'd say if you think that
is so anti-Spies you're
seeing it through some kind of colored glasses.
It's complimentary to Ben.
You seem to require blind faith in Ben, or something.
No, not at all. What I was pointing out is the way Julian has had to be
dragged into having real respect for Spies, and is always several steps
behind the reality of his abilities and performance. That, I think, is
because of his core disrespect for American racing and racers, at least
the contemporary stuff. I think that's pretty clear from the start when
he basically says where Spies comes from justified the Yamaha WSB team
hiring Sykes and not Spies, and we know how their performances compared
as teammates in 2009.

When he said last year at this time, "Will his rookie year be better
than Lorenzo's? Unlikely.", he was setting up a ridiculously high bar
for Spies - Lorenzo had a very good rookie year overall, he was on the
factory team, we learned in '09 what his political leverage was within
that team (because of talent and/or passport) and what that could mean
in terms of support, he knew all the tracks, we knew by then he was a
very, very good GP rider. For Spies to top that performance (assumedly
measured in wins, podiums, points, championship position) in his first
year in GP on a satellite bike while learning half the tracks from
scratch would have almost taken an act of God. And yet Spies did come
within 14 points of Lorenzo's total.

It's hard not to like Spies, or to not respect his performances over the
last few years. And Julian doesn't do those things, I don't think, but
he does continue to be rather lefthanded in his respect and support. And
without really explaining that, as I said earlier.

Btw, back in the day I was a Mladin fan, and wanted to see Mat kick
Ben's ass every time out. Now I just want Nicky to kick his ass...
Champ
2011-01-05 09:16:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:43:18 -0800, Mark N
<***@earthlink.net> wrote:

<Mark whining about anyone who didn't acknowledge Spies as the new
Messiah>
Post by Mark N
"Spies is undoubtedly extremely fast and an extremely fast learner. His
ability to beat the aliens is still somewhat unproven. This is his chance."
"I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised."
Which seems to me to be a very accurate assessment of what actually
happened.
Post by Mark N
[1/23/10]"Will his rookie year be better than Lorenzo's? Unlikely. But
then hopefully he won't have the 3 big high sides. How often or how soon
will he beat Edwards? My guess is that he'll be fairly quickly into the
second pack and there'll be at least one race where Rossi has his one
big screw up of the year and some other stuff happens that gets him on
the podium."
As is this.

<reads down the rest>

Oh, really, I can't be bothered. How long did it take you to assemble
all those quotes? Do you have a file into which you cut and paste
everything that anyone says that you disagree with?
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Switters
2011-01-05 12:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Oh, really, I can't be bothered. How long did it take you to assemble
all those quotes? Do you have a file into which you cut and paste
everything that anyone says that you disagree with?
I think there's just about enought disc space in the world.
Mark N
2011-01-05 15:49:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
<Mark whining about anyone who didn't acknowledge Spies as the new
Messiah>
Funny that, since I don't think he's the new messiah, nor have I
commented on anything anyone else has said (or not said) about Spies...
Post by Champ
Post by Mark N
"Spies is undoubtedly extremely fast and an extremely fast learner. His
ability to beat the aliens is still somewhat unproven. This is his chance."
"I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised."
Which seems to me to be a very accurate assessment of what actually
happened.
We're talking about next season there, Champ, which means nothing has
actually happened yet...
Post by Champ
Post by Mark N
[1/23/10]"Will his rookie year be better than Lorenzo's? Unlikely. But
then hopefully he won't have the 3 big high sides. How often or how soon
will he beat Edwards? My guess is that he'll be fairly quickly into the
second pack and there'll be at least one race where Rossi has his one
big screw up of the year and some other stuff happens that gets him on
the podium."
As is this.
Not exactly - he sets up the Lorenzo straw man, which was pretty much an
impossible goal based on the big numbers only, and in fact one could
easily argue that Spies actually did have a better rookie year than
Lorenzo, all things considered. For instance, in the races where Spies
had either raced on the tracks before or tested there in MotoGP or were
new to the series last year he averaged 12.8 points per race; Lorenzo as
a rookie averaged 10.6 points per race. And in fact one of the aliens,
Stoner, failed to average 12.8 points per race over last season. And
with the exceptions of Laguna and Valencia, Spies had been to most of
those places only once, and he did that on satellite bike, etc. Spies
finished on the podium twice, and he beat both Lorenzo and Rossi on the
track at Indy, and on lap 7, the last one completed by Stoner, he had
more than 4 seconds on Casey. He qualified on pole and he came about as
close to winning a race on a satellite bike as anyone has in 800 MotoGP,
he didn't back into a podium because "some other stuff happened". He
didn't crash like Lorenzo did, he pretty much kicked Edwards' ass all
year, and as to what Julian meant by the 2nd pack, who knows who that
was besides him.

Now, if you take all that into account and consider where Lorenzo is
today, how does one not think Spies can run with the best this year now
that he has a year under his belt and has moved to the factory team?
Unless one factors in things like the politics of equipment and sponsor
preferences, the impact of rider size, etc., things Julian pretty much
dismisses out of hand. No, what one seems to be left with is "I just
don't think he's quite as good as the aliens", right? So you go back a
couple years and Julian was claiming there were five guys of Mladin's
quality in WSB (meaning there were five of Spies' quality, of course),
and looking back it turns out there simply weren't any. So I guess
Julian's concession today is that there are only four in MotoGP that
exceed Spies' quality...
Post by Champ
<reads down the rest>
Oh, really, I can't be bothered. How long did it take you to assemble
all those quotes? Do you have a file into which you cut and paste
everything that anyone says that you disagree with?
Didn't take very long at all, just sorted Julian's posts and went
through to subjects likely looking at the big picture in MotoGP, and
turds tend to float to the surface. And I can see why you stopped where
you did, because it just gets worse the farther one goes back. Hell,
even I had the decency to stop in mid-'08...
Champ
2011-01-05 18:48:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 07:49:25 -0800, Mark N
Post by Mark N
Post by Champ
<Mark whining about anyone who didn't acknowledge Spies as the new
Messiah>
Funny that, since I don't think he's the new messiah, nor have I
commented on anything anyone else has said (or not said) about Spies...
Oh, I think you have - you've lept on anyone who hasn't heaped praise
on Spies.
Post by Mark N
Post by Champ
Post by Mark N
"Spies is undoubtedly extremely fast and an extremely fast learner. His
ability to beat the aliens is still somewhat unproven. This is his chance."
"I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised."
Which seems to me to be a very accurate assessment of what actually
happened.
We're talking about next season there, Champ, which means nothing has
actually happened yet...
Yes. I know.

So, I was saying that Julian's prediction turned out to be pretty much
on the money.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Mark N
2011-01-05 20:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Mark N
Post by Mark N
Funny that, since I don't think he's the new messiah, nor have I
commented on anything anyone else has said (or not said) about Spies...
Oh, I think you have - you've lept on anyone who hasn't heaped praise
on Spies.
Really? Maybe you can provide some examples. And maybe you can also
provide some examples of where I have heaped too much praise on Spies,
where I have predicted he'd become a multi-time MotoGP champion, that
sort of thing.
Post by Champ
So, I was saying that Julian's prediction turned out to be pretty much
on the money.
And I don't think he's ever been quite right about Spies, he grossly
underrated him as a world guy when he was still in the AMA, he
underrated him when he moved over to WSB (but not so badly, having
seen his GP wildcard rides and then his WSB test times), he underrated
him when he first moved over to MotoGP, and I suspect we may
eventually find he's doing the same thing today. No, he doesn't go out
there dumping all over Spies, which just would look silly at this
point, but he still betrays his fundamental belief that that an
American rider raised in the AMA on AMA-spec superbikes simply can't
be all that at the MotoGP level. No matter the accumulation of
evidence to the contrary.
sturd
2011-01-05 23:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Funny that, since I don't think he's the new messiah, nor have I
commented on anything anyone else has said (or not said) about Spies...
Post by Champ
So, I was saying that Julian's prediction turned out to be pretty much
on the money.
And I don't think he's ever been quite right about Spies, he grossly
underrated him as a world guy when he was still in the AMA, he
underrated him when he moved over to WSB (but not so badly, having
seen his GP wildcard rides and then his WSB test times), he underrated
him when he first moved over to MotoGP, and I suspect we may
eventually find he's doing the same thing today
Typical.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Mark N
2011-01-06 00:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by sturd
Post by Mark N
Funny that, since I don't think he's the new messiah, nor have I
commented on anything anyone else has said (or not said) about Spies...
Post by Champ
So, I was saying that Julian's prediction turned out to be pretty much
on the money.
And I don't think he's ever been quite right about Spies, he grossly
underrated him as a world guy when he was still in the AMA, he
underrated him when he moved over to WSB (but not so badly, having
seen his GP wildcard rides and then his WSB test times), he underrated
him when he first moved over to MotoGP, and I suspect we may
eventually find he's doing the same thing today
Typical.
Of you, yes - I neither call Spies a messiah nor say anything about
what anyone but Julian thinks of Spies there...
Idea
2011-01-07 19:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Of you, yes - I neither call Spies a messiah nor say anything about
what anyone but Julian thinks of Spies there...
Jesus H Christ .... will you change the fucking record?

WTF is it with you? massive chip on your shoulder for sure, but its never
been this bad before and the seasons not even started yet.

Grow up.

Julian Bond
2011-01-05 16:27:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Methinks you've been spewing your BS longer than I've been here
Good grief. Hook, line, sinker, rod, reel and half my arm as well.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Tamper-Evident Bottle Cap
Ed Light
2010-12-31 22:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs at a guy who once said, "Racing would be better off
without America and Americans"?
I wonder what the discussion was.
--
Ed Light

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c***@gmail.com
2011-01-05 10:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs at a guy who once said, "Racing would be better off
without America and Americans"?
Perhaps what Julian meant (apologies to him for reading this into it)
was more directed at you as an American rather than the riders that we
bring up through the system. He's been soaking in your bile for years,
so I find it hard to blame him...

HFNY

-jim (re-lurking)
Mark N
2011-01-05 16:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Mark N
C'mon, Ed, Lighten up - what's wrong with occasionally throwing a few
deserving jabs at a guy who once said, "Racing would be better off
without America and Americans"?
Perhaps what Julian meant (apologies to him for reading this into it)
was more directed at you as an American rather than the riders that we
bring up through the system. He's been soaking in your bile for years,
so I find it hard to blame him...
At best that's chicken-and-egg stuff, I've been dealing with his
arrogant Euro-superiority shit from day one around here as well
(when/where do you think the "somewhat unproven" thing comes from?), and
blaming me for his chronic bias is kind of weak titty, don't you think?
That's like some lifelong virulent anti-negro racist still blaming
Malcolm X for his bigoted actions.

I say you should take Julian's words at face value, subtle slanting and
all...
Ed Light
2011-01-06 00:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
At best that's chicken-and-egg stuff, I've been dealing with his
arrogant Euro-superiority shit from day one around here as well
(when/where do you think the "somewhat unproven" thing comes from?), and
blaming me for his chronic bias is kind of weak titty, don't you think?
That's like some lifelong virulent anti-negro racist still blaming
Malcolm X for his bigoted actions.
Whatever Julian thinks, it seems you're not willing to tolerate the
natural tendency of nationals to prefer their home riders, though you
seem to be into it yourself, maybe.
--
Ed Light

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Mark N
2011-01-06 01:36:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
Whatever Julian thinks, it seems you're not willing to tolerate the
natural tendency of nationals to prefer their home riders, though you
seem to be into it yourself, maybe.
I have no issue at all with Julian supporting British riders. What I
have an issue with is his tendency to single out American riders (and
American racing in general) for unique levels of criticism and
disparagement. And let's recall that Julian and other Euros here have
been the ones most stridently opposed to the notion that European
riders are favored in the world championships simply because of the
European fanbase favoring them - you can't have it both ways. In fact
that's probably part of the reason why it appears I favor American
riders, that chronic overrating of European riders around here...
pablo
2011-01-06 05:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Post by Ed Light
Whatever Julian thinks, it seems you're not willing to tolerate the
natural tendency of nationals to prefer their home riders, though you
seem to be into it yourself, maybe.
I have no issue at all with Julian supporting British riders. What I
have an issue with is his tendency to single out American riders (and
American racing in general) for unique levels of criticism and
disparagement. And let's recall that Julian and other Euros here have
been the ones most stridently opposed to the notion that European
riders are favored in the world championships simply because of the
European fanbase favoring them - you can't have it both ways. In fact
that's probably part of the reason why it appears I favor American
riders, that chronic overrating of European riders around here...
Mark - I know you will conveniently regard me as an even less credible
source on the subject (please fore-go several hours of searching for
quotes...) but I don't think at all Julian had ever displayed anti-
American tendencies. You just tend to project that on anyone European
that doesn't happen to expect a new US rider to be the next coming of
Kenny Roberts Sr. It continues to amaze me you have not once ever
acknowledged that Roberts, Baldwin, Mamola, Schwantz, Rainey, Lawson,
Kocinski will forever be superstars walking down the strip in Spain,
yet utterly anonymous entities in the USA wherever they go including
motorcycle shows (and if you were in San Mateo last month you know
what I mean). And yes, Hayden and Spies would be shyly asked for
autographs on helmets if they went out in Madrid or Barcelona, but no
one would know their asses fro you and I in the USA as a rule. Admit
it dammit. That's why motorcycle racing is dead in the USA, sadly. It
wasn't always this way - AMA used to be a talent superpower producing
legendary racers able to tame unrideable beasts, but that changed.

It's a tired old subject. Every race fan welcomes a surprise and an
underdog winning it. I would love for nothing more than Hayden or
Spies winning it next year, but I'd hate to see the spectacle you'd
turn that into :D

Really dude, let it go. I agree with you - Spies will have it tougher
than Lorenzo to get stuff come his way next year. For the same reasons
he would if the roles were the same in AMA. Oh the shock of it, the
team will bend over backwards for the reigning champion, and the
newcomer has to battle harder.

Just to make it clear - I don't like Lorenzo all that much. He had a
great season, but I think many things came together to favor him, and
he is an arrogant jerk with amazing regularity... even though then he
tries to smooth it out. Every champion needs a decent helping of luck,
so there, I am not going to hold Lorenzo to a different standard. For
the record, I would not mind it at all if Lady Luck unfairly blesses
Elias, Spies or Hayden next year... but it's not because I am anti-
American that I don't think it'll happen, although I'd hope so.
Mark N
2011-01-06 22:34:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablo
Mark - I know you will conveniently regard me as an even less credible
source on the subject (please fore-go several hours of searching for
quotes...) but I don't think at all Julian had ever displayed anti-
American tendencies.
Being someone historically on the extreme in that regard, I would
assume that would be your opinion - it's all relative, right? I mean,
I don't know that even Julian openly declared Hayden "a bust" halfway
through his rookie year in GP, or had completely trashed the (old) AMA
in every possible aspect, or...
Post by pablo
You just tend to project that on anyone European
that doesn't happen to expect a new US rider to be the next coming of
Kenny Roberts Sr.
Really? Maybe you can provide some specific examples of that? Maybe
you can find some over-the-top things I've said about Spies?
Post by pablo
It continues to amaze me you have not once ever
acknowledged that Roberts, Baldwin, Mamola, Schwantz, Rainey, Lawson,
Kocinski will forever be superstars walking down the strip in Spain,
yet utterly anonymous entities in the USA wherever they go including
motorcycle shows (and if you were in San Mateo last month you know
what I mean). And yes, Hayden and Spies would be shyly asked for
autographs on helmets if they went out in Madrid or Barcelona, but no
one would know their asses fro you and I in the USA as a rule. Admit
it dammit.
I really don't understand what you're trying to say there, or how it's
relevant to this subject at all...
Post by pablo
That's why motorcycle racing is dead in the USA, sadly. It
wasn't always this way - AMA used to be a talent superpower producing
legendary racers able to tame unrideable beasts, but that changed.
Pablo, that's bullshit. First, you have repeatedly stated that you
don't even watch US racing, because it's too dangerous for your tender
stomach. Second, bike roadracing in the US has NEVER been anything
approaching Europe in terms of poplarity. If you looked at the
attendance at the few AMA nationals in the '70s and compared it to the
attendance 20 or 30 years later it would not likely be significantly
different, and certainly not in favor of the old days. The success of
American racers in the late '70s thru early '90s in GP had nothing to
do with a more vibrant roadracing scene in the US in those days. And
it's funny that the collapsed, failed American system has today
produced two of the seven riders on the top factory teams in MotoGP in
'11, equal to Spain and Italy, even without the advantages with
sponsors, fans, etc., that a Spanish or Italian passport brings...
Post by pablo
It's a tired old subject. Every race fan welcomes a surprise and an
underdog winning it. I would love for nothing more than Hayden or
Spies winning it next year, but I'd hate to see the spectacle you'd
turn that into :D
You mean like the spectacle I turned things into here when Hayden won
in 2006 or Spies won in WSB in 2009? Oh, that's right, I must have
forgotten to do that on those occasions, neeed to make up for it next
time...
Post by pablo
Really dude, let it go.
Me? All I did was take a little jab at Julian, it's the
(over)reaction to that by others that has made this such an issue, and
all I've been doing is defending myself since then. Hell, you will
note that Julian has barely even done that, instead just letting his
attack dogs do the dirty work, no doubt chuckling to himself...
Post by pablo
I agree with you - Spies will have it tougher
than Lorenzo to get stuff come his way next year. For the same reasons
he would if the roles were the same in AMA. Oh the shock of it, the
team will bend over backwards for the reigning champion, and the
newcomer has to battle harder.
Funny how the same didn't apply to Lorenzo when he showed up in 2008,
though, after having been rumored to have signed a contract with
Yamaha way back in mid-2006. I think the one critical thing that
allowed Lorenzo to be in a position to challenge and eventually defeat
Rossi over the last two years was his passport, that gave him a value
in GP that forced Yamaha to treat him equitably. So if in '11 Spies
does what Lorenzo did in '08 - win a race, get a handful of podiums,
finish in the top 4 in points - will Yamaha reward him with equipment
and support equal to Lorenzo's in '12 (assuming Lorenzo remains
champion, as Rossi was)? It's possible, but I have my doubts.
Post by pablo
Just to make it clear - I don't like Lorenzo all that much. He had a
great season, but I think many things came together to favor him, and
he is an arrogant jerk with amazing regularity... even though then he
tries to smooth it out.
And just to make it clear, I have come to have considerably more
appreciation for Lorenzo over the last couple seasons, after dreading
his inevitable arrival in MotoGP prior to that. Of course, that he
vanquished EuroGod probably has a little bit to do with that...
Ed Light
2011-01-06 22:49:21 UTC
Permalink
Mark,

Think about how it looks to a new newsgroup reader. It looks like you're
stalking Julian.
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
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Mark N
2011-01-06 23:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed Light
Mark,
Think about how it looks to a new newsgroup reader. It looks like you're
stalking Julian.
And there I was thinking it probably looks like you're stalking me...
Patrick Vervoorn
2011-01-06 23:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
Post by Ed Light
Mark,
Think about how it looks to a new newsgroup reader. It looks like you're
stalking Julian.
And there I was thinking it probably looks like you're stalking me...
No. I'm more or less a new newsgroup reader (more of a lurker actually),
but it certainly looks to me you are stalking _ANYONE_ who disagrees
with you.

Perhaps of interest to you: when I read one of the threads here where
you participate, I skip your postings, and only read the replies. Do
with this feedback what you want.

Anyway, let's see what happens now. ;)

Ciao, Patrick.
Champ
2011-01-07 09:41:53 UTC
Permalink
On 06 Jan 2011 23:42:28 GMT, Patrick Vervoorn
Post by Patrick Vervoorn
Perhaps of interest to you: when I read one of the threads here where
you participate, I skip your postings, and only read the replies. Do
with this feedback what you want.
heh. I've been doing that for ages :-)

I've not kill-filed Mark cos he does have some interesting and
knowledgeble things to say about racing. Or he used to, anyway.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Julian Bond
2010-12-30 08:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark N
and the myth of
inherent Euro tactical/engineering superiority?
Pot-kettle-black. Any criticism of Spies is anti-American. Any praise of
a European is "the myth of Euro tactical/engineering superiority". Glad
to see you haven't changed.
Post by Mark N
Post by Julian Bond
- I'd like to see Spies battling for the lead, but I suspect he'll be
just off the pace. I'll be pleasantly surprised to be proved wrong, but
still surprised.
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Spies is undoubtedly extremely fast and an extremely fast learner. His
ability to beat the aliens is still somewhat unproven. This is his
chance. Regardless of how you read the comment, I will still be
pleasantly surprised to see him join them.
Post by Mark N
Post by Julian Bond
- Exactly how fast is Cal Crutchlow going to be? I think there's going
to be at least one race where he's really on it, like he was at
Silverstone.
...and manages to put it in the top... six? Seven? Eight?? Crutchlow
is no Spies, he's mostly there to sell MotoGP interest in the UK; the
best I can say is he's probably no McWilliams, Ellison or Byrne
either...
I think and hope he'll be as good as Marco Simoncelli was this year.
Enough to justify another few years in MotoGP after that. Funny to see
McWilliams put in the same group as Ellison and Byrne. He was so much
more than that.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
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Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Reality Is What You Can Get Away With
Mark N
2010-12-31 16:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Mark N
Post by Mark N
...and manages to put it in the top... six? Seven? Eight?? Crutchlow
is no Spies, he's mostly there to sell MotoGP interest in the UK; the
best I can say is he's probably no McWilliams, Ellison or Byrne
either...
I think and hope he'll be as good as Marco Simoncelli was this year.
Enough to justify another few years in MotoGP after that.
I think that's overrating his chances, and by some margin. Simoncelli
started last year sucking it, but by the end of the year he was pretty
consistently running right with Spies and not that far off the fastest
guys. I can't even imagine Crutchlow doing that. After racing SBs in the
UK he had a learning year on the Yamaha team racing in WSS, and yet he
fell well short of Spies' '09 performance this year, and Spies had come
in totally cold. Now Crutchlow is coming in cold, and I think it will
really show; he will be doing very, very well to duplicate Toseland's
'08 performance on that team.
Champ
2010-12-31 10:01:56 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:56:37 -0800 (PST), Mark N
Post by Mark N
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Jesus, who on earth wipes their ass with their left-hand? Apart from
Arabs, of course.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
DaveW
2010-12-31 13:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:56:37 -0800 (PST), Mark N
Post by Mark N
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Jesus, who on earth wipes their ass with their left-hand? Apart from
Arabs, of course.
I've had to for about six weeks after each bike crash. It's awkward -
and sometimes messy - at first, but you get used to it.
Mark N
2010-12-31 16:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
Post by Champ
Post by Mark N
Translation: "I think this because he's a Yank, but I won't ever admit
to that". Once again, the left hand is only good for two things -
wiping one's ass and complimenting Americans...
Jesus, who on earth wipes their ass with their left-hand? Apart from
Arabs, of course.
I've had to for about six weeks after each bike crash. It's awkward -
and sometimes messy - at first, but you get used to it.
Finally, some life in this group...
pablo
2011-01-04 12:40:02 UTC
Permalink
It's been a while since I last checked, and you're right indeed.
I went to Riders for Health and donated $25... We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)

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2011-01-04 21:41:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 04:40:02 -0800 (PST), pablo
Post by pablo
It's been a while since I last checked, and you're right indeed.
I went to Riders for Health and donated $25...
Oh, well done! And I thought we'd only agreed $10 :-)
Post by pablo
We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)
Sure, but I don't think I'll bet on Spies not getting a win this year!
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
sturd
2011-01-05 00:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by pablo
We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)
Sure, but I don't think I'll bet on Spies not getting a win this year!
I'll bet $25 USD Rossi and Hayden are both shut out.
No wins.

I need to support Rider's for Health anyway.

Any takers?
sturd at virtec enterprises dot com no space between the
virtec and enterprises



Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
DaveW
2011-01-05 02:53:46 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:33:31 -0800 (PST), sturd
Post by sturd
Post by pablo
We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)
Sure, but I don't think I'll bet on Spies not getting a win this year!
I'll bet $25 USD Rossi and Hayden are both shut out.
No wins.
I need to support Rider's for Health anyway.
Any takers?
sturd at virtec enterprises dot com no space between the
virtec and enterprises
I'll bite. Though I like Nicky, it wouldn't be much of a surprise if
he can't win a race. But Rossi? I think he's got one more in him,
regardless of what bike he's on.
sturd
2011-01-05 13:01:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by DaveW
Post by sturd
I'll bet $25 USD Rossi and Hayden are both shut out.
No wins.
I'll bite. Though I like Nicky, it wouldn't be much of a surprise if
he can't win a race. But Rossi? I think he's got one more in him,
regardless of what bike he's on.
Hope you're right just for entertainment purposes. You're on,
now all we need to do is remember this bet after Valencia next
November.

Champ - you're on too if you want it. But that's it.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Champ
2011-01-05 09:23:46 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 16:33:31 -0800 (PST), sturd
Post by sturd
Post by pablo
We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)
Sure, but I don't think I'll bet on Spies not getting a win this year!
I'll bet $25 USD Rossi and Hayden are both shut out.
No wins.
Any takers?
Hmmm. I certainly don't expect Hayden to win, but then I've never
been much of a fan anyway.

The Rossi question is harder. There's certainly a possibility that
his day is done, and the move to Ducati is a bridge too far. Every
dog has his day, and Rossi's had more days than most. But I think
it's really down to whether he and Ducati can make the bike work or
not - if they can, I think he's still got enough hunger and
motivation.

Anyway, I see that DaveW has taken your bet, so I'll pass on this one.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
Ed Light
2011-01-06 00:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
Hmmm. I certainly don't expect Hayden to win, but then I've never
been much of a fan anyway.
I wonder what happened the day he grew a goatee and began to look like
he's glaring, though he still talks softly. Maybe he decided on a
permanent race-face.
--
Ed Light

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pablo
2011-01-05 14:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Champ
On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 04:40:02 -0800 (PST), pablo
Oh,  well done!  And I thought we'd only agreed $10 :-)
It was close enough to the season for giving. :)
Post by Champ
Post by pablo
We should make some
bets for 2011, perhaps it'll keep this newsgroup alive. :)
Sure, but I don't think I'll bet on Spies not getting a win this year!
The classic bets would be:

(1) Who wins the MotoGP championship? Given how dominant Lorenzo was
this year, and the law of inertia, it'd be hard to bet against him.

(2) Who wins the Moto2 championship?

(3) Closest and best reasoned top 10 prediction in MotoGP

(4) How many messages does MN write whining about US riders being
hated by every European MotoGP follower, or try to convince himself
that "smaller is better", in 2011? :-D (Count is already up, and we're
just on Jan 5).

Each participant in the bet series owes $2.50 to Riders for Health for
every bet he/she doesn't win (i.e. if I get all 4 of the above wrong I
owe $10, yet again), and gets bragging rights for winning.

So what 4 bets would we go for?

...pablo
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